Bat House Forum

[Cheryl]

Hi guys! (Got your forum-pruning email, Joe.)

I don't have bats here yet, but I DO have BEES!! Over the winter, I built an owl nest-box intended for owls, then bees inhabited it in Feb. I got them out of the owl box, and have started catching swarms. I had another arrive today. I now have two colonies (I think - if the second one made it intact, as they weathered a pretty bad storm before getting here).

So, I'm now building houses for Bats, Bees and Birds!

[Cheryl]

Here is a video of my bees ousting a large Green Fruit Beetle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flk6AAez69U

It is especially interesting if you are familiar with bee behavior. Around 20 seconds into the clip, one bee decides she's had enough of this and climbs (from the beetle's back) up to the hive ceiling where she does a shaking dance, spreading alarm pheromone. Right away, more bees arrive in force and they finish pushing the beetle off the hive. (The drama had been going on for five minutes or so.)

This particular beehive is situated right under the palm tree where most of my bats live. They seem to coexist just fine.

[LarryH]

For many years, I ran a commercial apiary and you would not believe how creative bees are at finding a new place to develop and grow their swarm. I always kept a few spare empty hives in each bee yard but they never went into it -- I always had to retrieve the swarm from a tree, a hay bale, a mailbox, etc., and put them into the hive.

The unfortunate thing is that when the bees have to attack an intruder, like that beetle, all of the bees in the fight die because they lose their stinger. We developed special screens for the front of the hive that allowed the bees to go through it without scraping off the pollen, but blocked larger insects such as bumble bees and beetles.

[Cheryl]

Larry, was this screen 1/4" mesh or larger? Like a mouse-guard?

I'm wondering what you know about bats eating bees... because I think mine do. One of my hives stays active into the late evening, and the bats fly around over that one when they first come out.

I had to check on another hive this afternoon, close to dusk: Right about the time my bees got upset - with me - and were flying around, I realized I also had three very excited bats dipping and swooping above my head. They didn't seem to mind the smoke (from the smoker).

What I'm wondering is, how do bats deal with stinging insects? How would they deal with a stinger left behind?

If I had to choose between keeping bats or keeping bees, I think I'd keep bats. But having both looks like a win-win situation for the bats!!! Honeybees are probably a pretty tasty treat!

[Terry Lobdell]

Cheryl, bats definitely do eat bees..........both my grandfathers were beekeepers and when my dad was little he said bats in the evening would feast on bees returning to the hives!

[Cheryl]

Very cool!

Hmm... Now what I need is a HUGE nursery box (like that bat condo!) and a few more beehives to feed all the bats! LOL

I live in an area where Africanized bees are a "problem", so a lot of feral colonies get destroyed every year. I have had great luck drawing swarms. I don't keep them if they're too aggressive. I've only had to remove one so far.

My biggest and most productive hive came voluntarily as a swarm in April. They are the ones that stay out into twilight, and start very early almost before light. That is an Africanized trait, however, this hive has not (yet) given me problems with defensiveness. It's just an all-around great colony. They've got great numbers. The bats love them, and the hive doesn't seem to suffer for it.

I have two other, smaller hives, and I'll very likely attract more swarms in the spring, now that I know what I'm doing!

[Terry Lobdell]

I did not know that Africanized bees were active before and after daylight..........that is very interesting..........I have a cousin and an uncle that keep bees.............I can't wait to tell them about this!!

[Cheryl]

September's issue* of the American Bee Journal has a fantastic (long, detailed, witty) essay on the history and breeding of Africanized bees. It is far more involved and interesting than I ever thought possible!! The bees weren't so hostile when they were first bred, but they did rise early to get the first nectar before their European cousins, and the first colonies were booming producers. ...Then they got out, and started moving, had to adapt to rain forests and back to deserts again before they finally hit Texas in 1990. A lot of changes happened during that time -- the defensive trait emerged, for one thing.

I wish the article was on the Internet, but I haven't found it. The author is Dr. David J. C. Fletcher

*Volume 149 No. 9

[LarryH]

Larry, was this screen 1/4" mesh or larger? Like a mouse-guard?

I'm wondering what you know about bats eating bees... because I think mine do. One of my hives stays active into the late evening, and the bats fly around over that one when they first come out.

I had to check on another hive this afternoon, close to dusk: Right about the time my bees got upset - with me - and were flying around, I realized I also had three very excited bats dipping and swooping above my head. They didn't seem to mind the smoke (from the smoker).

What I'm wondering is, how do bats deal with stinging insects? How would they deal with a stinger left behind?

If I had to choose between keeping bats or keeping bees, I think I'd keep bats. But having both looks like a win-win situation for the bats!!! Honeybees are probably a pretty tasty treat!

Cheryl,

The screen must be 1/4" in order to allow drones to pass through it (1/4" is a little larger than needed, but as close as you can get to the needed 5.5mm). You want to ensure that new queens can get out to mate and drones can come and go freely.

Yes, the bats will eat bees if they are still out when the bats begin to emerge. Fortunately, though, most of the worker bees are back in the hive by the time the bats emerge and begin feeding. The drones stay up in higher flight later in the evening, but you can afford to lose some of those. The bee stinger doesn't get a chance to bother the bat, since the bee has to be able to bend at the abdomen rather sharply to inject the stinger and the bat has already killed and eaten it before that can happen.

A few tricks I learned over the years that might proved helpful to you:

1. "Train" the bees to fly in and out of the hives in one direction by placing a "privacy fence" on the other side of them. For example, I had a highway that ran right past the apiary and didn't want the bees to fly in the path of cars and trucks that travelled that road. I installed a solid fence along the road with a row of Lombardy Poplars on the outside of it. The bees always flew up and away from that fence row, or high enough to get over it.

2. The bats tend to always go the same direction each evening when they emerge -- mine always head towards the creek that flows across the corner of the property. So, placing the bee hives in the opposite direction from the way the bats emerge will help to keep them out of each other's way.

3. I had bats, purple martins, geese, and chickens and bees all inhabiting the same area, and by far the most damaging to the hives were the geese -- they would actually peck at the front of the hive to irritate the bees so they would come out and geese could eat them. I had to fence off the bees so the geese couldn't get to them. I saw the martins eat some bees, but they seemed to bother them only when other insects to feed on were light due to weather, etc. The martins don't like trees close to their houses, due to predators roosting there, and they won't fly into trees that offers coverage for predators. I found that fruit trees throughout the bee yard offered some shade for the bees and protected them from hunting birds, etc. And, the early blooms of the fruit trees gave the bees a good start on the summer.

4. The more bats you get, and the more purple martins you have, the more hawks you will find feasting on them. While all are part of the food chain, I don't want to provide a buffet for the hawks with the bats and martins. I finally put upward facing nail spikes n top of the bat house poles to keep the hawks from roosting there -- they were making nightly visits to the houses waiting for the bats to emerge so they could grab them. They still catch some, but they have to do it in flight now.

Since my dad was an "organic farmer" before there was such a thing a organic farming, I've never used pesticides or herbicides, and this has proven very beneficial in raising bees, and having bats and martins. I currently have 10 hives on my property, as part of a 4-H cooperative effort, and we've not seen any significant loss from the.

Larry

[LarryH]

September's issue* of the American Bee Journal has a fantastic (long, detailed, witty) essay on the history and breeding of Africanized bees. It is far more involved and interesting than I ever thought possible!! The bees weren't so hostile when they were first bred, but they did rise early to get the first nectar before their European cousins, and the first colonies were booming producers. ...Then they got out, and started moving, had to adapt to rain forests and back to deserts again before they finally hit Texas in 1990. A lot of changes happened during that time -- the defensive trait emerged, for one thing.

I wish the article was on the Internet, but I haven't found it. The author is Dr. David J. C. Fletcher

*Volume 149 No. 9

Cheryl,

The common "Italian" honeybee will also become quite agressive under various conditions, and is often mistaken for Africanized bees. They become very agressive in cool, damp weather (not a good time to decide to work the hives), or during early morning or late evening disturbances when they aren't in active flight, etc.

If you have hives that have become agressive, consider replacing the queen with a hybrid queen. This will generate offspring with a much milder temper and each brood will increase the number of milder bees. (I ordered mine from Walter Kelly, but there are many other good suppliers as well.) If you are catching swarms to increase the number of hives, consider replacing the queen the following spring with a new hybrid queen.

Larry

[Cheryl]

I've heard that a lot of hybrid queens get superceded in the first few months and those colonies wind up with genes from local/feral drones anyway. I'm mostly interested in ferals, for survivor traits (not to downplay the efforts of hybrid breeders). I'll most likely try my hand at raising a queen from one of my own favored hives, if the need arises.

And it's true -- a lot of Italian bees are quite aggressive!! The last "bee attack" story I read was about normal, ordinary apiary bees in the midwest -- the boxes were stacked, waiting for migratory transport but the truck was a day late... During that 24 hours, some workmen were badly stung - over 100 yards from the hives! You just never know.

In May, I broke my foot and was unable to tend my bees... I had two newly caught swarms that needed to be moved to permanent homes. I tried to GIVE them away and couldn't. Not because they were "Africanized" but because everyone I talked to already had too many bees. Go figure. Too many bees! Treatment-free (aka Organic) beekeepers in my area are doing quite well.

[LarryH]

I've heard that a lot of hybrid queens get superceded in the first few months and those colonies wind up with genes from local/feral drones anyway. I'm mostly interested in ferals, for survivor traits (not to downplay the efforts of hybrid breeders). I'll most likely try my hand at raising a queen from one of my own favored hives, if the need arises.

I have not experienced hybrid queens getting superseded in short periods of time -- the hive will supersede the queen only if she is not able to produce sufficient eggs, and that doesn't happen in the first year of the queen's life. But, even if she is superseded, it is with one of her offspring, since she is the one laying eggs in the hive.

I had entire bee yards of hybrids -- one was Midnight bees, and another was Starline bees -- which had no more swarming or superseding than any other yards. In fact, since I replaced queens on scheduled basis, swarming was minimized.

But, back to the bats….

Larry

P.S. For an interesting pamphlet on different strains of bees, their desease resistance, gentleness, etc., check out:
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF%20files/1.12.pdf

[Cheryl]

Thanks, Larry

I'm not a commercial beek, I just dabble - to get a little comb honey now and then. I'm one of many Naturalists with top-bar hives.