Bats in my belfry

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Bats in my belfry

Postby cbwerner » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:12 pm

Well, actually, my chimney. :roll:

I just moved out into the country to a house on 10 acres and lots of fauna of all kinds. Unfortunately the chimney hasn't been capped, and I seem to have bats living in it from the sounds coming out of the fireplace. I've also seen bats at dusk and as near as I can tell they do fly into the chimney.

I ultimately need them to be gone and to get the chimney capped so they don't return. But I don't want them harmed and I know almost nothing about bats. I'll also mention that I think they've got a brood now, because of the increase in the noises. Also, in case it matters, I live west of Richmond, VA USA.

So my questions are . . .
1. Will they leave on their own at some point? i.e., do they migrate or something?
2. If I have to shoo them out, how?
3. In either scenario would it be important that I replace their "habitat" by building a house for them? I realize that might be a plus regardless, but you know moving - lots of honey-do's.

Thanks!

Chris.
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Terry Lobdell » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:54 pm

This link will show you how to exclude them from your chimney:
http://www.batcon.org/pdfs/education/fof_ug.pdf

Yes, they do migrate......although big browns sometimes winter over in people's attics.......

Anytime you can put up a bat box that is always great! Lots of info on this forum to show you the best ways to do it!

Keep us posted on how it goes!
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby cbwerner » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:09 am

Terry,

Thanks for the awesome pdf! As you probably know it has a perfect chimney solution. I'l probably wait a month or so even though it says it should be safe shortly.

I've already been reading the bat house picture/question forums, and I definitely want to put one up if I can get the construction right and get a good spot for the pole. I really enjoy seeing them fly around in the evening, and the bonus of the insects they eat is nice too. I'd really hate for them not to return to my property. A lot actually - I love watching them, not to mention just knowing they are there.

I probably should go over to the other forum to post this and I will, but just so I'm not mysterious about getting "the construction right" I'll tell my nature story of the week. As my assistant at work said "How many times will I be saying 'Welcome to the country?'".

Short version is that the wife and a neighbor lady got multiple stings on Wednesday when one of them or the neighbor lady's dogs disturbed a yellow jacket nest in the ground. The next day, an unfortunate fawn did the same thing and died from the swarm's attack. It was small for a deer, but still 50 lbs or so (and we've got a couple of dogs less than half that size). We've decided we need to actively hunt them if we see them and now got a permanent hit out on any yellow jacket or similarly dangerous wasp.

So reading how bat houses can attract wasps gives me pause to make sure I get the design right, or that it at least won't attract aggressive species. I never knew this before, but in reading about them I now know that yellow jackets are actually carnivorous. How weird.

Thanks again. Part of our move to the country was critter related (mostly my wife - I love them too, but am more motivated by my astronomy pursuits) and really appreciate people's help in being fauna friendly to our new environs! :D
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Joe Spencer » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:50 pm

Welcome CB and if you can erect a bat house (prior) to excluding them as Terry mentioned they may return next season to the bat house or you may have it occupied anyway. Either way it is a win win situation. Good luck. :thumbup:
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby cloudman75 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:22 pm

To expand on Joe's post, I offer the following:
Here is one way to identify that you have bats in lieu of the chimney swifts common to your area. I had chimney swifts making noises in my fireplace chimney which I first thought were bats.

Go out at dusk and sit in a chair so that you get a view of the chimney opening area. If you see bats flying out around dark, then you know you have bats. If you see something dark flying into a chimney at dusk it is probably not a bat. Chimney swifts can easily be mistaken for bats in flight and in noise they make by a novice. Here is a link to a chimney swift site that has audio you can click on to listen to the sounds they make. Chimney swifts with young often fly into a chimney in daylight and at dusk. Bats do not normally fly in at dusk but out., and are rarely seen in daylight flying.
If you have bats they will be leaving most likely in a couple of months for hibernation or a warmer winter climate . I went to Lowes and bought a chimney cap and that eliminated my chimney swift problem when installed. We have had several unwanted types venture down our uncapped chimney. The cap will eliminate bats swifts and squirrels,etc. Good luck, take a listen to the audio on the link I posted and let us know what you identified if it were possible.
Also winter is a good time to install a bat house as they come back in a few months around April in your area looking for a home and ready to have pups.

http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/a ... ney-swift/

Frank
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Dave Miller » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:55 pm

Welcome Chris, you are asking all the right questions :-)

Regarding bat houses & wasps - bat houses are sometimes used by paper wasps and mud daubers, both of which are not aggressive. Wasps & mud daubers live above ground, usually around eaves or places like that. Yellowjackets live below ground, and I have never heard of yellowjackets using bat houses. Also I wouldn't say that bat houses attract wasps, but if there are wasps around, they may use a bat house.

Regarding your chimney, do you use it (i.e. do you have fires or is it used by your heating system)? If not, I would urge you to consider leaving it open for bats and/or swifts. Swifts' natural roosts are large, old trees with the top broken off and are hollow inside. Those are extremely rare these days, so the swifts have adapted to using large, uncapped chimneys (which are also becoming very rare). Bats like the same roosts as swifts, but bats also use loose bark, rock crevices, and caves. Swifts are stuck using chimneys, which are getting harder and harder to find and this is negatively impacting their numbers.

If you don't use your chimney, you could seal it up at the bottom, and leave it open for swifts and bats. I helped do this recently at a nearby wildlife refuge that uses an old farm house as the refuge office. They were going to tear the chimney down because they don't use the fireplace. I convinced them to save it, remove the cap, and seal it off at the bottom. Within a few months we had Vaux's swifts starting to use the chimney, and they have used it every season since.
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Terry Lobdell » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:19 am

Dave, that is great news that you were able to have them save the chimney and then see it used by swifts! I hope someday to build a chimney swift tower..........there are some really good websites with plans for them.......
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby cloudman75 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:41 pm

Terry and Dave, I blocked mine as I am using it to vent gas appliances. I still had to remove a cat, squirrel, a ground squirrel, and ran a possum out in summer.
Not to mention catching some young chimney swifts and putting them out to fly with their parents. They came through the cast iron damper.
That was great getting the chimney saved that they were not using Dave. I remember reading it when you first posted it with a photo. I believe you also pointed it up for repairs. I would also encourage Chris to block off the chimney opening at the damper location if the chimney is not being used and not to block the opening that they are using. I still have swifts flying around with the bats at dusk. I will most likely try to build them a roost of some sort this winter.

Frank
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Dave Miller » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:04 pm

cloudman75 wrote:Terry and Dave, I blocked mine as I am using it to vent gas appliances. I still had to remove a cat, squirrel, a ground squirrel, and ran a possum out in summer.
Not to mention catching some young chimney swifts and putting them out to fly with their parents. They came through the cast iron damper.
That was great getting the chimney saved that they were not using Dave. I remember reading it when you first posted it with a photo. I believe you also pointed it up for repairs. I would also encourage Chris to block off the chimney opening at the damper location if the chimney is not being used and not to block the opening that they are using. I still have swifts flying around with the bats at dusk. I will most likely try to build them a roost of some sort this winter.

Frank


Good for you Frank. I have wanted to investigate the connections between bats and swifts but have not had time. It is almost uncanny how many similarities they have, e.g. they cannot sit on a branch, they must hang. I have got to believe that bats and swifts must coexist in some roosts. That would be the ultimate in bug control - swifts by day, bats by night, 24/7.

Yes the thing that tipped the refuge manager's decision is when I offered to repoint the chimney myself. It needed some repointing and they did not want to spend the money to do that so they were going to tear it down. So I did not actually do the repointing, the remodeling contractor did.

I was there when we first saw swifts using the chimney. The refuge manager was practically jumping up and down with excitement as we watched them go in the chimney. I think that allayed his fears that he had made a bad decision to spend money to save it.

The simplest way to block off a chimney at the damper is to use a 2" thick piece of rigid insulation. I did that at my parents house. They have two fireplaces, one they use an one they don't use. You just carefully measure the opening below the damper, cut the foam, cut a slot in the foam for the damper handle (in the closed position), and push it up into place. The compression from the fireplace walls holds it in place, even in strong winds (which they get up to 100MPH each winter). When I did this I also discovered that there were some blobs of mortar on the damper which kept it from closing all the way. So they had a 1"x24" opening to the sky, sending heat up the chimney for 41 years. The room is much warmer in the winter now.

I used the same sheet of insulation to make a plug at the front of the opening for their other fireplace. Again I fitted it just right so it stays in place by compression, with a couple of places for your fingers so you can take it out when you build a fire. My mom made a cloth cover for it using some attractive material so it doesn't just look like a white sheet of foam. That has made a huge difference in keeping that room warm as well.

Around here there is huge interest in Vaux's swifts. Over in Portland (across the Columbia river from me) there is a school that actually allowed the local audubon group to save the chimney for the swifts (it was to be torn down due to earthquake concerns). It is a huge local attraction during the swift migration - hundreds of people gather on the school lawn to watch the swifts: http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/segments/view/1380 (this was filmed before the chimney was retrofitted & the heating system was changed). There are many videos on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... wifts&aq=f

Sorry for the rabbit trail! But if you are interested in bats, I bet you would be fascinated with swifts too.
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby cbwerner » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:35 pm

Thanks again for all the thoughts and info!

The chimney is actively used and is for a wood burning fireplace. I checked out the link on swifts, and being a true novice, am now confused :eek: as I can't decide whether the sound is the same or not. However, I do know that bats are around as I see them flying every evening. Maybe I was mistaken about seeing them fly *into* the chimney, but I'm not sure. I know I've seen them flying around the chimney, though mostly they're over the patio and lawn.

I've read that there are some species of yellow jackets that nest above ground, but I think they're probably not in Virginia. Mub daubers and paper wasps don't bother me, but I am trying to decide about these monstrous European Hornets we have - I've read that they're pretty aggressive, but I haven't witnessed that, at least not yet.

Chris.
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby William Bagwell » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:37 pm

cbwerner wrote:I've read that there are some species of yellow jackets that nest above ground, but I think they're probably not in Virginia.


I think they are the actually same species. The one and only above ground yellow jacket nest I have seen looked almost identical to a hornets nest. Much closer to the ground than any true hornets nest I have ever seen though.

BTW, hornets eat yellow jackets. At least they are good for something :grin:

William
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby cbwerner » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:54 pm

William Bagwell wrote:BTW, hornets eat yellow jackets. At least they are good for something :grin:

William


:grin: :thumbup:
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Terry Lobdell » Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:52 pm

Dave, I inquired about building a combo bat/chimney swift tower a few years ago........I was strongly persuaded not to because it had been tried in the past and bat bugs killed the baby chimney swifts.........So I guess if I ever get around to building a chimney swift tower it will be designed not to attract bats.........
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Re: Bats in my belfry

Postby Dave Miller » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:32 pm

Terry Lobdell wrote:Dave, I inquired about building a combo bat/chimney swift tower a few years ago........I was strongly persuaded not to because it had been tried in the past and bat bugs killed the baby chimney swifts.........So I guess if I ever get around to building a chimney swift tower it will be designed not to attract bats.........
In your research did you find that bats and swifts roost together in their natural roosts? It seems like they must, unless they are smart enough not to share their parasites with each other, or they just don't get along, or...?
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